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 3rd Driver rules 
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Post 3rd Driver rules
So after I made trouble, that made espacially slaven furious #zorn , here the topic:
We or better I decided before season, that Tesa should start with 3 players, because we want to compete with other good teams, but hand can't be there regularly. So I decided team to be more importent then single player classement. First races I was alone or we were just two. but already at last race we were there with 3 players. So as the rules say one of us didn't drive and same we wanted to do this race too.
It makes no sense to say hand should switch team. That's not fair to kinda throw him out of tesa, I don't want to do that and don't want to change him the team because 3 players for tesa was my decision. I know it is not fair to start with 3 players and then count the best 2. So because everything was our own decision we never asked if it is possible to race with 3 at same time. I only was there to spec the race and maybe give my teammates some tips.
But cyrex mentioned an other good point: More drivers and single player classement.
I knew that now i'm out ouf competition because I won't be in germany on 16th september and can't race that too, so I have two races less in the end. that's too much. So it was my own decision to let tony drive and I don't want anyone to say that Tesa tries to get advantages or doesn't behave in a fair way.
I'm open for discussions, but I won't try to force it into a special direction, because Tesa would be only team to profit.
So discuss now mates that I don't cause so much trouble and delay again next week ^^ Sorry again slaven wasn't ment to keep you away from some cake :P

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2. Sep 2012, 20:01
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
I hate you but don't take it personal. :fooli053:
I didn't get furious, I just think it's not OK that 18 people wait for 4 person to stop chatin.
Me first got nothing against it in practice, it's actually one of the reason i come on practice.
I got nothing against it during qualy; it last 10 minutes no matter what interesting topic is in chat. Cooldrive will disagree. #lach
BUT! We all have other things to do and majority of us came here for 1 hour event. Main proof you honer is that 90% of people run from server one minute after race like there is fire in there houses or giant bee is flyin over there head. So 10 minutes chitchat is not everyone cup of tea in that time...
If I'm wrong I'll chat first next race. #schaem

EDIT:
As far as 3rd team driver is concerne; I think I already write about it.
I don't get it.
I don't get why that 3rd driver don't drive for himself or with someone else in new team.
If he can't came in half of races so what, the world will still spin.
Maybe we can solve this with best of 9 races to count or something like that? Sure the Ombre will make right call.
Anyway I say NO!
But then again I hate drive so i'm not sure my vote will count on court. #zuzwinker

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Last edited by RR Slaven on 2. Sep 2012, 21:04, edited 4 times in total.

2. Sep 2012, 20:51
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
From the technical (Data Tracker) point of view, the proposed option "points count for player but not for team" is currently not possible... If you want I could make that option, but currently I really don't have time (as I've said a couple of times already) so that would have to wait for approximately two weeks.
But I'm speaking purely as "the tech guy", as I don't have any strong opinions on how you should calculate the points, nor do I wish to get caught in the Cyrex-Slaven crossfire #blbl

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2. Sep 2012, 20:56
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
I just needed to react during race cause we are all here from some fun and to have race, so seeing that one driver won't drive cause of the '3-rd driver rule' make me little frustrated.. Last race we had 16 drivers, and all we want is that number to be more higher, cause that's the point of GT Race and all this stuff around it.. Seeing tonight that we will have 23 drivers, that makes me happy for a while before I didn't realize that '3-rd driver rule' so that didn't make sense to me.. #nixweiss

Sorry for chatting and for delaying race start, but I think it's stupid that Drive didn't drive! Also Team Championship must not be a priority here, so having 3 driver per team isn't good idea too.. I didn't know that that was the main reason why Handooek didn't drive last race, but many drivers this season are only 1 driver per team, and I didn't heard complaining from them, so I think we should all choose 2 driver per team, and stick with that.. I realize that some drivers can't be '
participating all races, so you want to have Team that's competition to fast teams (although in the end, teams with consistency have more points) but I think Driver Championship must be more valuable, so having Handooek not driving last race, and Drive not driving this race, and all that for Team points and '3-rd driver rule', is a little stupid for me.. I know it isn't fair to have 3 drivers per team on the race, cause you can score many points then, and that rule is needed, but why one of you can go to other team (or make new team) so that we don't even have that '3-rd driver' rule... I don't know, just that doesn't make sense to me.. This Sundays GT Races with you guys is almost everything that I play online, so knowing that I will be a 3-rd driver that night and won't ne able to drive just for Team points, it just doesn't make sense..

So either you stick with this nonsense rule until end, or you can all have fun racing with us, and one of you join other team or be in the new team..

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2. Sep 2012, 22:57
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
Seeing the season now, I agree with you guys. But when we planed I didn't know that this season will have so low numbers of players compared to first season and many teams were announced, also very good ones. But I'm no fortune teller so, sorry =) Knowing this season I don't think we would be three drivers, but as I said, how should I've known that? :)
I know, now that we'll find a solution, that case that we three are there at the same time will never happen lol
but anyways, when you want to kill the third driver rule, change bozz to an other team because he is third player and not hand.

Slaven, since you have no wife, and we are kinda made for each other, I ask you now in all public....wanna come over for some cake? #lol
Btw you knew that I'm not name changing every 2weeks, and that Knoppers was the first change in 4 years? :P
So can't wait for next race against you slaven(= #bike )
#droh
#handgeb



-------------------------------
hands oppinion(copied from the other topic):
My opinion about what we talked about before the race:
Me and Drive wanted to go for the team championship. However, since I have to work every other weekend, I won't be able to be there at some races. So we decided to ask Bozz to be our backup-driver, so he could race when I'm not around. Switching teams is (in my case) therefore not an option.
-------------------------------
Now from me again:
Exactly!
And I did Bozz let drive because I wasn't trained enough to get good result for team today, and I told him to train because I wasn't sure about being able to be at the race. And then I can't just ask him not to race it. And hand already didn't race the last one.
So ok for me if you add bozz to an other team for rest of season and ban 3rd driver rule for next season, but don't take away my dutch smurf #box

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2. Sep 2012, 23:20
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
The 3rd driver have to keep a substitute status. But for the fun, its a pity that he can't race in the case the 2 main drivers are racing.

So for the third driver rule, I suggest that, in the case the 2 main drivers are present (and only in this case), the 3rd driver can race, but he can't mark any point for his team. In the case the 2 main drivers are present, only those 2 drivers can earn points for the team (and not the 2 best of the team, that is not fair for team who have only one or 2 drivers)
Of course, in the case that one or 2 of the main drivers are not racing, the 3rd driver marks points for his team...

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3. Sep 2012, 10:00
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
RR remasy
+1 Remasy
Cyrex, you talked too much ^^ You explained your opinion but debate was very unnecessary.

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3. Sep 2012, 11:54
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
Hello lovely people #fuchtel

No matter what come, I man not worry me #pfff
Because .....
All the words we threw in chat before and after the race, yes man a big delay #lach but you have posted this for a good reason.
You all love this Series a little and you all want the best for it #drueck think about Cyrex again #opa he felt bad because one more driver cant race just for a rule we made before which shows her bad part in this case, so me impressed that #bg
I would be happy too when Drive is on track but I was uncertain if everything would be fine when we let him race, I didn't know how the plugin works from TTCO, didn't know if there any problems with the pointsystem, but all my reasons to be uncertain was for a good reason too, because I ever want what you all want, really.
And I think all objections from driver was for a good reason too on the other hand he told before that he is not in the mood to race because of the 1 - 6 against his football club #lach ultimately, the decision was by drive and he is not driven #nixweiss
I am a little bit sorry to Slaven, he wanted to drive the race and no read the chat #lach for a good reason again #top
We must not quarrel with all these facts, we need to use them #opa
And the Lion Style is the best #rasta we manage that #zwinker
I would say next time with same situation #opa Bozz have to switch team if he want to start and he should know that from now, I will talk with him about when I see him. And about the rule we can talk after the season if its necessary.
Is that ok ? Ladies and Gentlelions ? #seemann

let us continue with all this good stuff we have #dusch

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3. Sep 2012, 18:09
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
Hmm... well, I see Jahombre had some doubts about the plugin & data processing, so let me explain that a little bit more...
I see some people mix up the terms "plugin", "data tracker" and similar. So, this is how things work:
  1. Plugin - This is a XAseco plugin that I wrote (in PHP), and it is placed on the server (where the TM2 server runs). This plugin records all the race data, such as: track info, no. of laps, all the checkpoints etd. When the race ends, the plugin serializes the data (transforms it into a format that can be written to a file), and places all that in a data file. After the race Jahombre sends me that data file so I can process it further. That data file looks like this (just a small fragment, when serialized):
    Code:
    a:2:{i:0;a:23:{s:8:"jahombre";O:16:"checkpointsClass":2:{s:7:"all_cps";a:144:{i:0;i:26957;i:1;i:53676;
    i:2;i:79602;i:3;i:183465;i:4;i:205328;i:5;i:224666;i:6;i:243681;i:7;i:260394;i:8;i:280232;
    i:9;i:299112;i:10;i:318358;i:11;i:335958;i:12;i:355348;i:13;i:373862;i:14;i:393398;
    i:15;i:410428;i:16;i:429475;i:17;i:448003;i:18;i:466821;i:19;i:483521;i:20;i:502498;
    i:21;i:521593;i:22;i:540247;i:23;i:557373;i:24;i:576198;i:25;
  2. Data processing - Now this is the important part. After I get the data file from Jahombre, I stick it to another PHP script which deserializes it (puts it from the file back to variables in memory), and that script then generates code that I use to fill the database. Looks something like this (again, small fragment, the file usually has ~1000 lines, but depends on the race):
    Code:
    -- SQL INSERT QUERY > CREATED BY TTCO SCRIPT on 2012-09-02 20:31:21 - TRACK > $o$f00GT$fd0GingSeng $0a0R

    START TRANSACTION;

    INSERT INTO `race` VALUES ( 11, 10, 2, 9, 36, 4, '2012-09-02 20:31:21' );
    INSERT INTO `update_info` VALUES (NULL, UTC_TIMESTAMP(), 'Data Entry for: GT Series XYZ', 'Data');

    -- CREATING INSERT FOR PLAYER: trebor2k(147)

    INSERT INTO `race_results` VALUES (11,147,2665338,1,40,1,1,1,144,0,'OK');
    INSERT INTO `laps` VALUES (11,147,1,24061,17970,18404,120547,180982,180982,1);
    INSERT INTO `laps` VALUES (11,147,2,21713,18628,18157,16635,75133,256115,1);
    INSERT INTO `laps` VALUES (11,147,3,18095,17860,18095,16389,70439,326554,1);
    INSERT INTO `laps` VALUES (11,147,4,18010,17797,18837,16586,71230,397784,1);

    That "magic" transformation page looks like this:
    Image
    Notice the second and third line - I made those when I was developing the system for testing purposes, but they can come in handy if need be. The first one removes a driver completely (as if he didn't show up at the race), and the second removes all the checkpoint data (as if he DNF'd after the race start, but before the first CP).
    Now, in that transformation I have only these "basic" options above (remove driver/drivers cps), but even after that data generation I can to with it what ever I want. For example, if Drive DID drive the last race, I could have removed him completely from the results, as if he didn't drive. I can manipulate with the times, positions, points... basically what ever I want #blbl So if a driver was removed, the plugin would have recorded his time (and I would still have that data in the data file Jahombre sent me), but I can remove that when I do the data transformations... After all that is done (and I input the qualy positions manually - that's not automatic), that entire SQL (again, its written to a file) script is uploaded to my test database (on my computer). I do that for every race to make sure all is ok with the data. When I check that, the same file is uploaded to my web hosting database. And that's it, the data is available for you to see.
  3. Data tracker - this is actually just the logic (web page) that displays the data in the database with all the nice formatting, transformations and fancy options (tables, graphs)...

So I can do with the data what ever I want. A few posts above I stated that currently I can't insert a driver whose result counts towards Driver points but not Championship points, but that doesn't have anything to do with the Plugin or data file, or the mentioned data transformations, that has to do with the logic in the system behind all the data (if you want "the application/data tracker business rules").

So to sum up, it's no problem at all if someone drives or not, but (currently) his result will either be:
  1. Treated normally (both driver and championship points), or
  2. Deleted. IMPORTANT: That can actually be a temporary workaround, because his results will still be recorded in my data file, just not entered in the database. When I make the option for separate driver/team point system, his/her results can then be inserted. Ofcourse, IF you decide for that system! #zuzwinker

yet another long (possibly "tl;dr long") post by TTCO #blbl

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3. Sep 2012, 19:11
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Post Re: 3rd Driver rules
Thank you TTCO... And now, do you have an Aspirin or Ibuprofen???

UUUUuuuh my head! So painful! :fooli053:

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3. Sep 2012, 19:46
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